"Reliability" based brand loyalty?

"jkm7680" (jkm7680) 01/07/2015 at 22:01 • Filed to: None

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When you think of a reliable car, What is the first car manufacturer that comes to mind? Think both build quality, and reliability.

Lots of people would think of Japanese cars. Especially Honda, and Toyota. Both family members and friends of mine have had Toyota cars that have lasted for years without any major mechanical problems at all. Nothing wrong with that, They can make a good car. But it's what's in the details that's usually a deal breaker for me. For instance, Let's go with the Toyota Sienna from let's say 2005. Perfectly reliable car, I know somebody who owns one and he hasn't had many issues with it. The engine is sound, The transmission is, Uh. Still there? But it's what lies in the details and shadows of the van. Things that are generally overlooked by your average consumer yet still blatantly evident. For instance, The rear doors don't open whenever it's below zero according to the owner. You go to try and open them, and they don't open. The car thinks they are open though. And after that you're doomed to hearing this wretched beeping noise from both of the doors whenever the van is in drive. The noise is loud, and comes from both doors at different intervals. It doesn't sound like an elevator ding, It sounds like a couple of robots viciously going at it. The dealer apparently "couldn't really do anything about it." There's these problems and more listed on websites like Edmunds. Don't get me wrong, These aren't especially major problems, and all cars have problems. But the thing about them is that they're more inconvenient than anything. Yet, even with these problems they still sell more units than less problematic vehicles.

(Took this bit out to restructure and reword.)

Keep in mind, I've got nothing major against Toyota. I'm just thinking in depth a little bit.

Comments about me being a VAG fanboy incoming!

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:06

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General Motors and Ford have always made really good cars in my personal experiences. Some people bitch about the plastics but that shit doesn't bother me at all. It's part of why I like them. Our Toyotas have been reliable but they're not fun to drive, not bad cars per se but not enjoyable to me.

dogisbadob > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:07

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Sadly even Toyota doesn't make them like they used to :(

I mean yeah they're still reliable, but the other shit you mention is nowhere NEAR as good as it was in the 90s. Build quality was the best there is. even the cheap-ass Tercel was very well-made. The late 90s is when Toyota started cost-cutting (4g Camry, 8g Corolla, etc)

TheHondaBro > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:07

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I think of Honda. Anything by Honda I'm a fan of*. I'm a Honda fan, in case you didn't know already.

Honda.

*Not really. The CRZ isn't special, even with an HPD supercharger.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:08

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God, the Toyota/Lexus hate is out in full force lately. This is good FP comment section material.

Jedidiah > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:08

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That's the power of marketing. Most cars on the market are flimsy, poorly-built products engineered solely for profit margins and consumers don't know what they're buying. One reason why I'll never buy new.

Toyota interiors have massive tolerances.

They have funny clips that hang on the edge of huge hole rather than push in clips, so that interior panels can be put on by quickly and sloppily by unskilled laborers.

I saw a picture of this assembly style before, but I'll be damned if I can find a picture.

jkm7680 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/07/2015 at 22:13

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I mentioned that I have nothing against them!

I'm just observing what I've been seeking more of lately more than anything.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:13

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There is a difference between new Toyota and old Toyota, plus I believe they spend a little more time on their trucks and suv's. Toyota's are there for when you're up shits creek, and need something to escape with. Nothing special, but always get you there.

jkm7680 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 01/07/2015 at 22:16

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Ooof! The difference between the Toyota that I knew and the Toyota of today is staggering. Just looking at all of the older Yotas I see, I can tell.

They so seem to give the Tundra and Sequoia extra attencion though. They seem pretty damn solid.

Steve in Manhattan > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:17

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Had an '87 Toyota 4WD pickup and an '88 Toyota Camry wagon. Both manual. The only problem between the two of them (put about 60K apiece on them) was 2nd gear in the Camry, which dropped out. After negotiations (the car was a few hundred miles out of warranty) and proving to them that I knew how to drive a manual, they paid for half the rebuild. Both cars sold with original clutches.

So I say Toyota based on those cars. Good build quality, very reliable. Dumped the truck on its side in the snow once. A couple good ol' boys helped me push it back up onto its wheels, and I drove it home. $1,600 later, it was perfect again. No wonder those things are still running all over Africa. And the Land Cruiser - drove one of that vintage as well, and it was ridiculously good.

JohnCrust > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:19

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What I want to know is this; why does Toyota get a free pass on the 2008 ish era Camry and its wretched interior? People always hate on GM because they have "low class" interiors... I took only look at the inside of that appliance with wheels and walked away. One of them had simulated yellow wood grain panels...SIMULATED WOOD GRAIN!

I will leave you with words from Jeremy Clarkson, "A Toyota is for someone that hates cars."

Most of their engines and transmissions are decent though. Some had oil sludge/early life failure but you can't win them all.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:21

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The Tacoma has a proven track record as well, with the exception of the frame rot recall. While old Toyota did have a few issues, like my 4Runner and it's head gasket issues, they overall were tough as shit. Besides, if head gaskets are the only major thing that goes wrong in 150-200k miles, I can live with that.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:24

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General Motors and Ford come to mind. Sure GM used shitty plastics in their interior until somewhat recently, but it was well screwed together shitty plastic. My girlfriend's dad's '97 328i rattles and squeaks more than my '94 Safari does. My girlfriend's Taurus has pretty damn tight panel gaps and the dash actually has some squish to it, in an American car from 2002. The Vue and the Fusion are both well put together with really nicer materials.

Reliability comes in stride in most things GM and Ford make/made. The Silverado hasn't needed anything other than regular maintenance, neither did the Vue. The Safari has just in the last year really needed anything major, which I call good for a 21 year old car. Girlfriend's Taurus still runs and drives like new at 145,000 miles. We have yet to tell on the Fusion, but I imagine it being reliable too.

44444444444 > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:28

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Volvo. Extremely solid, well built cars with very few mechanical issues. The most trouble plagued models have perhaps 4 glaring issues and most of those were fixed by the end of the production run. There are many many Volvos that have gone 200k+ miles and still look new outside and in. The interior quality is pretty good, if a little plasticy. And the tan colored leather seats could have a better tolerance for wear.

In 2001 Volvo messed up with their 5 speed automatic transmission choice for the XC70 and didn't recover for awhile especially when you mix it with the transmission issues of the S80 T6 cars from 1999-2005. I admit there was a marked decline in quality for the beginning of Ford's ownership but they turned it around by 2004. After that their entire lineup was solid.

When Ford bought Volvo they swapped all of their cars to a similar architecture and became a legitimately buyable car brand for the first time in a decade.

MIATAAAA > dogisbadob 01/07/2015 at 22:30

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I had a 1992 Previa that was a total beast. The only thing that ever went wrong on it was the rear hatch latch came loose. In 15 years, that's the only thing that went wrong.

Oh and the A/C indicator light went out for a while, but it returned after a few years.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:30

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I am also reporting what I am observing.

With Jalopnik, and now suddenly on oppo, driving or owning or liking a Toyota is now akin to be "anti-enthisiast." Elitist nonsense. Even in your own post, you ponder if Toyota emphasized reliability and sacrificed build quality. The idea that they are mutually exclusive is absurd. A quality product actually LASTS. Having added features that make for a nice ride for about 3 years before they fall apart is not quality.

Constantly, posts about cars being "soulless" (because they work as intended, like a machine, because a car is a machine!), boring beige, etc., there are so many people on here that just want to shit on other people's choices.

You notice I'm not on here shitting on GM ignitions, German V12s, Saab's Saabness, planned obsolescence, or Subaru head gaskets...

Most people love cars. Or did. They want their old Mustang back, they want to fix up their dad's pickup, and they wish they had a 911. But many people have families, debt, marriage, and shitty income. So they buy reevaluate their priorities, sigh, and buy a used Camry wagon that will be reliable and affordable to get them through their lives. And then people on here stroke their cocks because they have the luxury of having a fun, impractical, or privileged ride. Sizing people up by their possessions. Truly shallow.

jkm7680 > 44444444444 01/07/2015 at 22:33

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Volvo was also one of the brands that popped up while thinking about it. I've heard the most praise about build quality, and safety but also a ton about reliability. I feel that Ford's ownership of them was both a blessing and a curse at the same time. But I also though that since Volvo is regarded as making safe good looking cars, Why aren't they selling as good? I've always thought of their styling especially as ahead or above average, Especially with their newer cars but they really don't get the sales they deserve. Especially in the States.

DoYouEvenShift > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:39

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I dont think we can group an entire manufacturer in either reliable/unreliable as as a whole. Certain companies can make one model like a tank and drive to and from the moon. And another barely make it to 100k.

sellphones2493 > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:40

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Honda. I'll save most of this for my 'Working at Carmax' storytime, but whenever I had a customer come in, I'd try to get them in a Honda Accord, because:
A. It's a decent car
B. Maxcare is cheap on them/ it's an easy sale $100 in my pocket
C. I most likely won't see it in the 5 Day Return Period
D. Finance companies love them/I can get you a decent rate

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > TheHondaBro 01/07/2015 at 22:41

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Yay... anything Honda!

shop-teacher > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 01/07/2015 at 22:42

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Well played! My neighbor had one of those for a long time.

jkm7680 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/07/2015 at 22:46

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I'm not calling any Toyota "Soulless" nor am I "Sizing people up because of their possessions." I specifically made evident that I was making observations based on my opinions and experiences and I never said anything to personally insult you or anybody else for that matter. And if you're calling me shallow, that's uncalled for. I never said anything to you.

jkm7680 > DoYouEvenShift 01/07/2015 at 22:49

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That's another point that I was getting at, But avoided saying how I actually feel about it to avoid toxic levels of controversy. I cut an entire paragraph off, Haha. "Profiling" Is a clue.

Steve in Manhattan > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 22:51

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I should also say - I ride in a lot of last gen Camrys (taxis), and rent a few Priuses - I find them rather plasticky. The build quality is pretty good, so I wonder if the taxi/rental versions are being built down to a price. I would hope the current-gen Camrys are a lot better.

DoYouEvenShift > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 23:24

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One thing Ive learned working in a full service shop and seeing pretty much every car under the sun roll in and out.

Its 2015 and the problems that people like to bring up in conversations like this are pretty much a thing of the past. Like 70s and 80s past. Thats a long time ago.

Pretty much every manufacturer now has very solid powertrains that will last a long time. However, its little things that can make everyday life with a car hell. Thats a challenge that I think every car maker should take on and improve on. Things like window regulators that fail prematurely, hvac actuators that die, switches and knobs, struts that give out at 30k, plastic headlight lenses glazing over after two years et etc.

not for canada - australian in disguise > jkm7680 01/07/2015 at 23:38

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Both are seen as basically indestructible, even if the Lada is far from indestructible, when it comes to rust.

pip bip - choose Corrour > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 01/08/2015 at 02:34

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i hear you loud and clear on that!

toyota's - reliable but dull as dogshit